I don't like though how right after that he insinuates that Biden is part of the 9/11 cover up. Making quick assertions like that undermines your credibility in the audience around you. Keeping with the questioning of whether or not they'll conduct an investigation or not would have been better, I think. _________________ http://arcterus911.blogspot.com
I don't like though how right after that he insinuates that Biden is part of the 9/11 cover up.
Well, he is the Vice President of the frickin' United States, and it has been 8 years. If a blue-collar worker like me can find out the basic facts about 911 then surely the VP with his team of PR representatives and researchers can do same.
Let's not kid ourselves here. I'd be willing to venture that virtually the entire US government knows the score on 911. Politicians are rightly regarded as sniveling little bastards with no decency (as a rule , but they are human and therefore possess the basic human trait of curiosity.
A simple search on Google and the truth is there for all to see.
Considering the pattern of many confrontations we've seen in the past ("you're a shill for the New World Order!" -- cathartic maybe, but not very effective) I think "Shumonik" did a fantastic job. Very poised, laid out the facts, left Biden with no alternative but to run and hide.
I think this confrontation is a landmark.
I do have a problem with the word "traitor" though. Traditionally this epithet has been used against some of the finest people who ever lived, from Emma Goldman to Einstein to Big Bill Haywood to Mark Twain.
Explaining his writings during the birth of the American empire in the Philippines, Mark Twain wrote that “My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders.” Decades later, George Orwell came to a similar conclusion: that “Patriotism is a devotion to a certain place and people, contrary to nationalism which is inseparable from lust for power.”
I understand the utility of using the word "traitor" against politicians in the context of 911, but it's a dangerous game. I'd rather be a traitor to my state than the human race. When I hear the word "traitor" I think of firing squads.
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 2189 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:28 am Post subject:
Arcterus raises an uncomfortable point that I've address on many occasions. There are best practices for this sort of thing.
I'm not really knocking Bruno or Jeremy. By relative standards that confrontation didn't go so bad. I've been a lot more frustrated by others. But I've thought for some time that WAC and the movement would benefit greatly from developing and promoting strategic guidelines for these confrontations?
Some of the confrontations have had a solid premise. Presenting something. Asking a question. This one seemed to make sense. But in many cases the people involved lose their cool and decide to express personal feelings that greatly detract from the outcome.
Did I miss the guidelines? Did lots of WAC people miss it too? Why can't this issue keep moving toward some kind of resolution? Or are people actively avoiding it? _________________ http://911truthburnout.blogspot.com
Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 5918 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:26 am Post subject:
This is pretty major stuff, guys. I'm all for the critiquing of actions in an effort to mutually improve and there's nothing that you're saying that I disagree with but it seems the momentousness of this action is being ignored in lieu of registering some fairly standard complaints.
They got the Active Thermitic Materials paper into the hands of the Vice President of the United States of America and asked him some highly relevant questions regarding its implications in front of a whole slew of news teams. Jivin' Joe was speechless and visibly impacted. This is a historic moment.
Could it have been better? Of course - just about any action could be - and that's why criticism is important. But good criticism doesn't ignore the successes - in this case, the exceedingly blatant win of this action.
Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 5918 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject:
Jeremy writes:
Quote:
A little post-encounter analysis has led me to think that if I had shut my mouth after the first question, more could have been revealed and the tension could have grown in a creative way. I don't apologize at all for what I said as he left (it was as soft as I could be considering the lives ended and or affected by this ongoing silence and cover-up), but I do see the possibility of further heightening the encounter through restraint, emotional discipline and a reaching out to all the people present. Bruno and I have discussed this in the time since.
This is pretty major stuff, guys. I'm all for the critiquing of actions in an effort to mutually improve and there's nothing that you're saying that I disagree with but it seems the momentousness of this action is being ignored in lieu of registering some fairly standard complaints.
They got the Active Thermitic Materials paper into the hands of the Vice President of the United States of America and asked him some highly relevant questions regarding its implications in front of a whole slew of news teams. Jivin' Joe was speechless and visibly impacted. This is a historic moment.
Could it have been better? Of course - just about any action could be - and that's why criticism is important. But good criticism doesn't ignore the successes - in this case, the exceedingly blatant win of this action.
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 2189 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject:
Quote:
A little post-encounter analysis has led me to think that if I had shut my mouth after the first question, more could have been revealed and the tension could have grown in a creative way. I don't apologize at all for what I said as he left (it was as soft as I could be considering the lives ended and or affected by this ongoing silence and cover-up), but I do see the possibility of further heightening the encounter through restraint, emotional discipline and a reaching out to all the people present. Bruno and I have discussed this in the time since.
That's exactly what I was talking about, and in the most constructive tone I could muster. Jeremy is a really thoughtful guy and his concerns above very clearly demonstrate the kind of self reflection and strategic growth that we don't see often enough. That's also a victory of sorts in my eyes relative to my concerns.
Just because I didn't list off the reasons why this was a good thing doesn't mean I can't see that. I understand that we need to take encouragement where we can get it. But post game analysis, if you will, is also really important as suggested above.
The thing I like most about this action is the fact that many people seem to be trying really hard to bury the thermite paper, and these guyes raised the issue in front of a lot of people who can now never claim they haven't heard of it. That's a functional result. _________________ http://911truthburnout.blogspot.com
I too agree with Jeremy's post-encounter analysis. It would have been better if he'd have left his prior question -- which was open ended - lingering in the air for Biden to respond to instead of giving him a much easier yes/no question. Hindsight is 20/20 though, of course. What's most important is that Biden has now officially been presented with this evidence and cannot claim ignorance of it. I applaud Jeremy's very good work.
Yeah, it was neat to see this, having done so much internet work to promote this paper, to see it in his hands was historic. Seeing that, I lost interest in the words anyone was or wasn't saying. It's out there now, you can never undo that. He will be judged by such details in history.
By no means do I intend to belittle the actions of WAC here, nor do I mean to defend Biden. My only concern was promotional strategy. Keep in mind most of the people here probably like Biden. I think this is a great and monumental move that could've just been handled slightly better. But props to Bruno and Jeremy. It was an excellent confrontation. _________________ http://arcterus911.blogspot.com
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